Will get a Z4000 one day [this summer probably, unless I find a good deal on an older ZW] just to say I have one. As your layout grows beyond the basic oval of track that comes with most starter sets, a good power distribution network is essential to getting consistent performance from your train all the way around. Our transformer sizing calculator allows you to obtain the minimum single or three-phase transformer size required based on the load you need to power. Ran 6 motors [MPC's]. EXPLORE FasTrack 10" Straight Track 4-Pack 6-12032 $ 21.99 FasTrack Grade Crossing with Flashers 6-12052 $ 99.99 FasTrack O36 Curved Track 4-Pack 6-12033 $ 21.99 Legacy AMC-2 Motor Controller $7.89 delivery Feb 2 - 6. properly wired transformer can handle any amount of track. Transformer Size Calculator - Electram However, if you begin adding more than 1 or 2 cars, be sure to get some extra track, or your longer train will be chasing its tail very quickly. Twin coil machines have a higher current draw when in motion but are also much faster-acting than the motorized versions. 4.1 4.1 out of 5 stars (15) Ages: 14 years and up. In addition to the wire itself, connectors like crimp-on terminals and terminal blocks must also be purchased in larger (and more expensive) sizes. Kind Regards Steve, QUOTE: by Dave Has anyone here ever blown a transformer from hauling a double-headed Allegheny coal drag up a 2 percent grade?. I run an MTH 4-6-2 PS-1 pulling five Madisons on about fifty feet of track and the transformer I am using (Z-4000) has a digital amp readout. Our community is FREE to join. I didnt mention the 1034 above because its easier to find a 1033. If you were to get a ZW 275 you need external short protection. This tool only evaluates common voltages for North America (ie. If youre looking for Lionel transformer comparisons, youve come to the right place. You can use bus and feeder wires to more evenly distribute the power over your track. They are fun to have. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. You can also minimize voltage drop at the rail joints by soldering the rails together. David, looking at your layout I notice there is a two rail and a three rail ? The choice of a control system is somewhat, but not necessarily, dependent on which manufacturers engines you prefer or have the most of. Model Train Track & Transformer at Lionel Trains This will spread the load of your lighted passenger consist across the two transformers. You can also run Lionel TMCC/Legacy Command Engines using the MTH DCS system with the addition of a Lionel command base and an additional cable. The CW-80 is a nice little transformer, has accessory output as well,but as you have stated you will outgrow the CW-80 pretty quick. Model train transformer- 6 steps to understanding how they work The other type of cars are the Scale cars, which are exact or near-exact replicas of actual freight cars. Of course, if you happen to have enough Number12 wire left over from a home renovation project to install all the buses on your small layout, it won't do any harm. These can all have uses for your layout. Forgot about light bulbs since I don't got some yet. The CW-80 Transformer was meant to operate on 120-volt, 60-Hertz power. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. --I need a station for the train to stop at. Also, I found an old guide printed by lionel on power requirements. Heavier insulation not only adds to the cost of the wire but also makes it harder to bend. That's about enough to run a single locomotive and perhaps power a few lighted accessories or passenger cars. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Expanding the basic oval from the set is the quickest way to add more interest to your trains. If the transformer fails, you most likely have a short or overload somewhere in the control circuit. As you progress with your layout there are a lot of people here who will help you with any questions you have. All about the Lionel ZW - The Silicon Underground 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, Wire Gauge Standards for Model Train Layouts, Model Train Track Grades and Maximum Grade Issues. That it not to say that there are not engineering formulae to calculate the current draw and thus the wattage, but far and away the easiest method is to measure it. Not wanting to give up, I experimented with an 80 watt modern Lionel transformer and got great results. Lionel Vintage Model Railroad & Train Transformers - eBay But after a little while, you will likely want your train to do more, and youll start thinking along these lines: --It sure would be neat if it did more than run in a circle. We feature Lionel, American Flyer, MTH, Atlas O, Williams Trains, K-Line, Weaver Models, and more. Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers for sale | eBay Solid wire is preferable as it is much easier to solder to the rails. Starter sets almost always include a power supply along with the track and train. I have since wired the new transformer to my layout along with the old ZW. There have been issues with chopped waveform transformers, i.e. Today, with some luck, you can get one for closer to $100. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. Mike, The size of the transformer is dictated by what you want to run, the more you run the more power you will need. the amount of track is not what is important here. editors report that most of the wiring issues they address involve basic principles of electricity - the stuff that Ben Franklin played with when he flew his kite. Lionel makes a seemingly infinite number of cars to in a variety of colors, types, and road names. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. A starter set is the best way to start with the train hobby. It was a symbiotic relationship, the engineer designed it and the tech built it, then they both troubleshot it. (Use buss/feeder lines to distribute power.) The best of the best Lionel trains are very valuable. Number 26 to 20 wire (depending on the length of your bus) will be sufficient for most applications. There are a few standards when it comes to the color-coding. If this happens, you will need another transformer to share the load. Dave, the nice thing about Lionel transformers is you can run them until the bimetallic breaker pops and then you let it cool and you are back in action (after shutting a few things down)! The next evolution in model train control is radio- or bluetooth-controlled trains. Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. --Heck, watching one train run is great, Ill bet TWO would be even more fun! Model Train Scales & Gauges: The Lionel Trains Guide You must be signed in to continue. Length of track or type of track doesn't (or shouldn't) matter. Good choices are the Lionel 32923 Accessory Transformer, or another 80-watt transformer like the one included in your set, #14198. This type of transformer is cheap, its reliable, and its easy to find. The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. Transformer Calculator KVA Calculator Full Load Amps Calculator I have purchased diodes to put into the older transformers to see if this resolves the issue with newer tenders. Checklist Transformer Size Calculator When sizing a transformer, you need to know the kilovolt-amps (KVA) that your machine requires. Serious or fatal injuries may result. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. These transformers are much cheaper than they were even just a few years ago, but that just makes them a bigger bargain today. Number 22 solid wire works best on most scales. On the flip side, the new transformers do not seem to work as well with the prewar whistle tenders.Has anyone else noticed this anomaly? Today Lionel includes the same basic track oval in all starter sets8 36-inch diameter curve sections, 3 10 straight track sections, and 1 10 straight terminal section, which create this layout: Until recently, to add to this layout, you would need to buy separate straight, curved, and other track sections and wing it in creating a larger setup. Some DCC systems also recommend solid wire for certain applications. Professionals Need: Kindle Direct Publishing Indie Digital & Print Publishing Made Easy Amazon Photos Unlimited Photo Storage Free With Prime: Prime Video Direct If youre going to run more than one train, you can pair up two smaller transformers, or you can look at the two-handled transformers. I think the RW is a bit better value, but that could just be timing. Like all electronic products, you want to make sure your power supplies are rated by the appropriate body for your country (UL for example). When you get DCS, keep the blocks and run the 2 sets off 2 Fixed channels out. I talk more in depth about the 1033 here. DCS Power Supplies | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS These bus wires are often more important than the size of the power supply itself in getting good results. Wow.thanks for all the advice so far, guys!! Different wiring projects call for different standards. Connecticut Valley Railroad -- A Branch of the New York, New Haven, And Hartford. There are many advantages in repairing or reconditioning your transformers. You should always, always test your transformer for safetybefore you set it up, andunplug it when youre not using it. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. Not unlike the relationship between the locomotive engineer and the fireman. DCC is less common in starter sets, but some are available. And even when Lionel trains run on AC, they sometimes do some DC trickery. Because of this, like with lighting and accessories, your power supply and wiring for switch machines do not need to be as robust. As Paul said, the power needed doesn't have anything to do with the distance; but the voltage needed does. HO gauge is very popular because of its size. Lionel Trains: Value, History and What Collectors Should Know 40-500 50 Watt AC Transformer - 50 Watt AC transformer suitable for . The smaller the number, the larger the wire. I bet they would be great for running lights and unloading the main transformer. Regardless of your scale, all model railroad switch machines fall into one of two categories, a slow-motion electric motor or a "twin coil" relay. Make your Christmas complete with a Lionel HO Train under your. The chances are that little power supply isn't going to keep the train running over a full mile, however. This tool will allow you calculate the KVA that you need. As cheap as the 1033 is, if youre going to buy a transformer, you might as well pay a few dollars more to get a 1033. Price Received. The first is the traditional or classic size, which are the cars that match starter sets. Transformer for Lionel that works in AUSTRALIA Wire Gauge Standards for Model Train Layouts - The Spruce Crafts Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Best Selling Lionel 1908080 O Gauge CW80 Transformers - Black (4) $147.85 New $110.00 Used Lionel Legacy Powermaster Lnl637146 (13) $134.99 New $90.00 Used Lionel 634120 TMCC Direct Lock-On Transformer - Silver (21) $58.99 New $49.99 Used Lionel Trains|MTH Train|Lionel Train Sets| HO model Trains| G Scale|Dept 56 The smaller of the two is # 12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. The article you suggest would be a daunting task, as you'd have to gather virtually every known locomotive and transformer! Extending the Reach of Your Power The farther from the transformer the more resistance in the rails and your engine will slow down. RemembertheVeterans. For most layouts, and most scales, Number14 stranded wire will work best for your bus. In the middle range, Lionel made a lot of other transformers. Smaller layouts (a typical 4 foot by 8 foot being a good example) can usually get by with Number16 since the length of the run from the power supply to the track is never more than a few feet. Tech Support for the OGR Forum (NOT FOR TRAINS), PRR fellas!lets build an S2!! An Essential Guide for Toy Train Enthusiasts! The fraction of your transformer's power lost in the track will therefore be well under 10 percent, since it is proportional to the voltage drop. Turn on the throttle, then short the A and U posts (in the case of Lionel) or variable and base posts (in the case of Flyer) with a screwdriver or a piece of wire for a maximum of five seconds. The good news is, Lionel made a lot of good transformers over the years. Within that range, it is generally recommended to go for the most robust power supply possible. Just connect the jumper wires to the same connections on the back of your transformer as your original connections, and make sure that the wires are not crossed. Understanding the difference is important in getting the right power supply for your needs. Take the hint. Thanks in advance for any information, Mike. I suggest that you proactively lay an 10-2 AWG NM cable (or at least 12-2) along the track and tap into it as needed to keep the voltage up. As your layout grows so, too, will its power demand. This has the added advantage that Lionel TMCC (command control) will operate correctly. "O" Gauge is what Lionel is today, along with "O27". All of the transformers that have more than 90 Watts are in great demand today as more collectors are operating retro-layouts. Never had a problem. And again regardless of scale or manufacturer, switch machines of these two types will have similar needs and performance. Understanding Electrical Supplies and Controls. For more realistic operation, you need some kind of speed control (throttle) between the 10340 Automatic Reversing Unit and your transformer. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. Lionels HO Gauge items are back! Digital command control systems (DCC) uses digital information to control the electrical power to the train. On a large loop of track you will need to have multiple drops, hook-ups, to the transformer because if you only have one hook up the train will get slower the father away it gets from the transformer. They're controlled with a simple handheld remote control and run on easy-to-connect plastic track. :-). The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. Just get a Lionel #12053 Accessory wire set and enough extra wire to connect from the wire set back to your transformer [speaker wire works well]. As far as new transformers go, someone else may be able to help more than I can. Right now I am running 8 motors on one KW [the new one I found] and got the old one for reserve. At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. And that means theyre affordable. Do not connect this product to any other power supply. Price Received. If they do, follow their recommendations. Most two-rail track systems use direct current (DC). So, if you want to connect eight landscape lights to an electronic transformer, and the lights use 20 watts each, you would need a 160 watt transformer. If you want a transformer with power to spare go get a ZW! They do not include a track or power supply, so you will need to buy both separately. And of course, individual Fastrack sections are also available. Buyers truly want all-original trains that have never been tampered with. Sell Your Trains Using a Live Auction House. I got a lot of lightweight transformers that came with starter sets over the years. I thought you wanted information related to your layout not operations at a trains show. This set also includes an uncoupling track section, which will disconnect cars from one another at the touch of a button, and a bumper, which keeps cars from rolling off the end of the track. Improve ready-to-run freight cars with a little paint. Antique Train Sets - FAQs for Lionel Collectors Club of America Tales From Harmon Shops, WTB: LIONEL AUTRORACKS SPECIFICALLY SOUTHERN,GRAND TRUNK,BNSF,FERROMEX. That transformer will only prolly handle 1 engine and depending on how long it is will depend on how many extra feeders you will need around the layout. Get the newest photos, videos, stories, and more from Trains.com brands. That could also be the reason the other transformers don't work. Actually the choice of transformer is secondary to the choice of control systems since you can operate O gauge trains with most any good modern transformer. There are also numerous static accessories that do not operate but add visual interest to your layout, such as the #24219 girder bridge. Reverse the above if planning to run mostly Lionel and go with the Lionel command system, either the full Legacy system or the upcoming CAB-1L and just add a Track Power Controller and a cable to run most MTH engines in conventional with the Lionel systems. They give a great deal of power in a single handled transformer, and if you run trains along with another person, it can be more convenient for you to both have a smaller transformer than for two people to huddle around a larger KW or ZW transformer and share its handles. Are you running command or conventional? Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. Also, you must have a built-in circuit breaker to prevent a short circuit from causing permanent damage to the power supply or the trains. Most power supplies will perform very well for years if used within their limits. So far, I haven't seen any way to do this except to take amp measurements or just wing it and see how hot your transformer gets. The polarities can be reversed to change the direction of the train. Most feeders will be only a few inches long so the smaller diameter wire will not be a problem. I'll take this information and run with it to help get me started. The 190-wattLionel KWwas the second biggest and second best transformer of the postwar era. The least expensive power supply you should consider is the Lionel CW80 Transformer; you can buy a new one for about $150 or a used on one eBay for about $60. how much track can a transformer handle? | Model Train Forum If you plan to add a second loop for another train in the near future, the 14198 would be a wise investment. But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. Model train power falls into one of three categories. There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around the entire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. Now, I am going to make a suggesstion that you use a larger diameter curve for your corners. All power supplies will be rated for volts, amps, and watts. Effort. (8 lights X 20 watts = 160 watts). Whatever colors and pattern you choose, just make sure to keep a good notebook handy to reference later. For a transformer less or equal to 500 kilovolt-amperes, a typical %Z impedance may vary between 2.3% and 5.2% based on the voltage level. Sell Your Trains Through an Online Auction Service. If your going to run anything more that what came with the set then you should probably upgrade to something a little bigger. IF the Engineer is the guy that drives the locomotive then theTechnician must be the fireman is this correct? Effort. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content. Early issues used a Bakelite case while later releases had a case made out of plastic. Here are some guidelines for the most common wiring jobs you'll find. It is 5" long. Here are some simple definitions for these electrical terms: Most power supplies will be labeled as to the scales they are meant to handle. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, WELCOME TO THE FORUM Mike!! From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. Thus an appliance with a 15-ampere plug (the usual kind with parallel blades) must draw no more than 12 amperes. What is the best transformer to use? - O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum Dave, you're so eloquent and inspiring - my undergraduate degree was in American Studies, now I'm in charge of among other things all our college's technology - also self-taught.. Hello All: Re: Dave Farquhar, Dave you left out sense of humor Regards Steve. what size lionel transformer do i need - senatlaevproducts.com The Lionel Multi-control 1033 is a 90 watt transformer produced from 1948 to 1956. To build on the point you are running MTH trains and therefore will probably go DCS eventually: I would break the track into blocks of about 5 feet in length. It is not uncommon to see 50-year-old transformers still going strong on a model railroad. American Flyer Trains Basic Operating Information I am currently running about 40 bulbs, which at 0.1 A each total 4 amps! If you have time, check out the "Coffee Pot". Use the CW-80 Transformer only for its intended purpose. With multiple switches, lights, power supplies and more all concentrated in a small space, color coding and neatness pay off. its the amount of engines you need to worry about, I'm currently running my entire layout on a single DC power supply that came with an Athearn engine/track set. While it is tempting to go with the biggest wire possible to guarantee excess capacity, there are drawbacks to putting in more than you need. The KW used to be really expensive, but since Lionel started making big transformers again, you can get a KW for what a 1033 used to cost, which makes it a very nice bargain today on a rugged and powerful transformer with an impressive presence. Our community is FREE to join. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. For instance, a 100 kilovolt-ampere transformer with 8.32 kilovolts (or less) on the high side has a typical value of 2.6% impedance. Lionel, LLC continued to manufacture and market trains and accessories in O scale under the Lionel brand and S gauge under the American Flyer brand. He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. Besides the train and track, accessories provide a lot of fun and animation to any setup. By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. Price Received. To determine the required transformer VA, multiply the secondary voltage by the required amperes: For example, VA=Volts x Amperes or 28V x 1.2 amperes = 33.6 VA. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. In this case Id go with a postwar TW 175 watt transformer. But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. This is different from the stranded wire in that the different individual wires, each with their color-coded insulation, is placed inside a secondary insulation wrap. A new ZW will run you in the neighborhood of $450.00 or a little less depending on your dealership. To my knowledge, you should have no compatibility issues with a pure sine wave track feed with any major brand locomotive. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a different case. This is because the demands for power are becoming more than your transformer can handle. When they were manufactured by The American Flyer Manufacturing Company, they were made in Standard Gauge and a version of "O" gauge. --I wish I had some more cars to put behind the engine. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. I've had light 'arguments' with fellow hobbyists claiming most of their fellows are predominantly technically - oriented vs. what I would consider is a more liberal artsy approach - any way it's a great balance. Enter your e-mail address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by e-mail. Serving these devices with their own dedicated supply will not only allow you to supply them with a proper constant voltage, but it will also free your main power supply to handle the load of the train itself. It does not work with O27. If you have to ask,your needs are a lot more modest than that. Of all the questions fielded by the staff of Classic Toy Trains, inquiries regarding layout wiring top the list.While you might expect numerous questions regarding complex techniques or new technologies, CTT. It can run four tracks at one time, so you layout can grow. Mark. New trains; old transformers | Classic Toy Trains Magazine
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